Why does PW-5 get no respect?

Newbie here. I ran across a joke that said the market value for a used PW-5 was based entirely on what the instruments and trailer were worth. It appears this issue was beaten to death at one time, but I'm curious for a paragraph or two explanation of why the ship gets no respect.

The PW5 was the apparent winner of a design competition to create a 'single design' cross country contest glider. And still be usable for the club (affordable) and beginning (novice) pilot. It came out at about 30 or 31 to 1 L/d. Not truly blistering performance. Others in the competition were the Blanik L-33 Solo, Russia AC4 (and I think there was another )

There are many very good used gliders on the market for under $30K with a much higher (41/1 L/d) performance. Most people look to 'trade up' to something with higher performance.

If they learned in a SGS 2-33, then yes, a PW-5 is a 'trade up', but if they learned in ASK-21 or Grob 103s, then the PW-5 is a drastic trade down in performance. Better to go by the trusty Libelle 201 at 36/1 L/d.

All are good aircraft for what the owner pilot may want to achieve, the L-33 is 'all metal' and can sit out in the weather. All are 'easy assembly' , easy to fly, and good gliders to learn the art of soaring and cross country. Getting that student more than one thermal away from home airport. But for the money.. it's hard to compete with 42/1 L/d in the used market.

JMHO BT

It has been beaten to death and it is kind of sad that that may have damaged the reputation of the glider. The idea is that a one design class glider tests the pilot, not the pocketbook. Ultimate performance is not really significant given this design mission, just performance enough to be fair, which the PW-5 has.

Many apparently think L/D per dollar is important. If you are one of these, the PW-5 is probably not for you. Look at things like LAK-17's and ASW-12's. If all your buddies fly around in 40-1 ships and you want to fly with them, it is probably not for you either. If beauty is a big factor, and it kinda is for me, get an ASW-27.

If you want a nice flying glider that has performance for all badge work, that will give you good experience and that will be competitive in contests for years and years and years ahead and that is very suitable for record work and that will not need expensive refinishing every few years and that will never need the hassles of disposable ballast, you might give it a look.

After owning an obsolete high performance glider in the past I have been very happy with the B1-PW-5 I got in a partnership a couple of years ago. This one has all automatic hookups, it is incredibly easy to rig, with very light wings, and simple to push around, single handed, on the ground. It seems to be competitive in Sports Class and is cutting edge in PW-5 National and World Competitions, although one must deal with the unpleasant reality that bad results are not the fault of an obsolete glider, but to a personal lack of skill. For record work it is hard to beat at all levels, state, national and world records are available with equal opportunity for all. This is not true of many of the gliders it is compared with.

If you need to make up for anatomical deficiences get a Corvette glider. If you want flying fun and a level competitive playing field at a reasonable price, you could do worse than a PW-5.

Larry Pardue PW-5 2I

A PW5 is a disaster of a glider that handles on par with a fat cow. Don't even get me started on it's aesthetic looks.

On a more serious note - a lot of the aversion comes from it's couple decades-old selection as the World Class glider. This was an extremely poor choice. We could have had a widely available glider type for a reasonable price and with a reasonable performance. Instead, we ended up with an overpriced monster of a 1950's vintage performance. This in essence killed the World Class.

Assuming this is not a troll, do a PW5 search of RAS and you can keep yourself occupied for hours with assorted threads.

At 23:54 19 November 2003, Isoar wrote:

Lets just say its the automotive equivalent of a Trabant in the sailplane world.

Al

I am not a pilot who flys a PW5 but my club has several plus several grob 102s for general flying and competition work. The one thing is becoming clear the PW5 is a fibreglass equivalent of the K8 , a low penetration,moderate performance easy to fly and land anywhere machine. To get good performance out of them really requires quite a lot of skill . With their light weight and inertia, when an accident happens the damage to the glider is usually minimal and the pilot just dusts off their clothes. The structure damage in an accident is relatively minor and their simple to fix. What I have seen in competitions is usually very close tight hard racing In essence the one design concept works but everybody voices loudly their opinions on whether the PW5 is 'THE' design gary

The PW5 is ugly, has a lower performance than the early 1970's gliders (Cirrus and Libelles) and is roughly the price of a second hand LS4. The entries to the World Class are falling and is very unlikely to ever make a popular competition.

It wouldnt have been so bad but it was also was not the best choice out of the 'World Class' options. Should have been the L33. Or a more sensible option would have been to sanction an all LS4/Discus (or similar) class.

My apologies to PW5 fans but thats my opinion.

I am going to join Your opinion that PW-5 is a good design. It flies well, and is considerably affordable when we talk about the price of a *NEW* ship, what is most often forgotten by those who criticize the 'Smyk'. There are still some people who don't want to buy pre-owned ship with not always clear history. The second thing what the sceptics foget is that the World Class was brought to life to allow joining contests to as wide as possible range of pilots. Not only the masters and those who fly 100 hrs a year, but also for those who fly just few times a year, but stil would like to join the race just for fun. That means that the glider should be very easy to fly, and the PW-5 really is...

Of course the performance could be better, but for what price (even literally thinking of money)? For harder handling in the air? For heavier wings (15m of span would add some kgs to their weight)? Or for more problems when building one's own glider from the plans, which was also a requirement for the World Class design.

In my opinion the PW-5 is a superb glider (yes, I have flown one a lot) for the requirements it had to meet. The only thing I would be different is that I would prefer the PW-5 as a taildragger just like the Junior.

It is UGLY. All of the other problems (except cost maybe) could be overcome it the PW-5 was not such an insult to the eye.

Todd Smith

Thanks for the responses. Ya'll have given me enough to understand the core of the argument. In software develoment we call these sorts of discussions 'religious arguments' because of the passion involved.

Good air