Student-Instructor question (USA)

Does instructor have to on the ground when a student is flying? Can the CFIG be towing or giving other instruction?

There is no FAA requirement that I know of, If there were, how would students manage cross-country practice? A club, commercial operation, or insurance company may have more stringent requirements and an instructor may put any limitation in a student's logbook (61.89 (a) (8). Below is the operative section of part 61 concerning solo student flight:

61.87 L) Limitations on student pilots operating an aircraft in solo flight. A student pilot may not operate an aircraft in solo flight unless that student pilot has received: (1) An endorsement from an authorized instructor on his or her student pilot certificate for the specific make and model aircraft to be flown; and

(2) An endorsement in the student's logbook for the specific make and model aircraft to be flown by an authorized instructor, who gave the training within the 90 days preceding the date of the flight.

(m) Limitations on student pilots operating an aircraft in solo flight at night. A student pilot may not operate an aircraft in solo flight at night unless that student pilot has received:

(1) Flight training at night on night flying procedures that includes takeoffs, approaches, landings, and go-arounds at night at the airport where the solo flight will be conducted;

(2) Navigation training at night in the vicinity of the airport where the solo flight will be conducted; and

(3) An endorsement in the student's logbook for the specific make and model aircraft to be flown for night solo flight by an authorized instructor who gave the training within the 90-day period preceding the date of the flight.

(n) Limitations on flight instructors authorizing solo flight. (1) No instructor may authorize a student pilot to perform a solo flight unless that instructor has

(in response to a question about whether the CFI must be on the ground while his/her student is flying solo)

Vaughn is correct - there is not an FAR *requiring* the endorsing CFI to be present on the ground, in-state or anywhere in particular when his/her student is flying solo.

Consistent with 61.89(a)(8) and 61.195(d)(1)(ii), however, a CFI can elect to supplement any solo endorsement with a limitation requiring the student to review weather & flight planning with an instructor before solo flight. At the CFI's discretion, such a limitation could be worded to apply to the entire 90 days solo privileges are granted, or to some magic number of flights, or when specified winds/weather are forecast or observed.

If any such limitation is intended to apply indefinitely, it should be included in each 90-day endorsement.

we've had some instructors try to 'supervise' student solos.. while flying with another student.. while towing... does not always work out..

'new' solo student is one thing.. experienced solo.. and about ready to take his check ride is another.. not readily available if the weather changes.. or to 'monitor the approach and landing', or watching if they are getting to low on the ridge before heading back to the traffic pattern. There has been a few times that the 'pattern was crowded', but the student needed to be told to 'turn base now', because he appeared to be extending to far.. or was to low to fly the 'normal' ground track.

Hard to do that from the air.

Also, our insurance states that there will be an instructor 'on the field', with solo students, but does that mean, feet on ground?

As far as x-c practice.. Students are limited to the valley, not crossing the ridge line to the other side. Students can 'practice' cross country going down the valley to the next town and return, it's 14nm one way, but there is a dry lake under them for 1/2 that distance. Or they can 'cross the valley', about 7nm to the far ridge and soar there, always being able to return to the airport or the lake bed.

Never leave the safety of the lake bed below a set altitude, which will provide final glide with ample safety margin for return. And the prevailing wind is normally from the lake bed area to the airport.

BT

Bob,

We've asked the same question and our answer came through Costello, our insurance carrier. Paraphrasing here, 'The instructor must on the field (on the ground) and be in a position to observe the takeoff.' Being in the towplane that is towing the student doesn't count.

Of course, to us it seems, it doesn't matter if the instructor is on the ground watching or in a towplane towing or on the space station: he can't do anything to help if something goes awry.

Ray Lovinggood Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

Ray, we got the same answer. The logic behind this can be explained that the instructor could evaluate the surface wind at the launch site, view the ground and pattern traffic and any other pitfalls evident at the moment. These things could not be assessed from the air. Specious? Maybe. Maybe some day the instructors will be hired by the insurance companies.

At our club, the gliders have no radios, so the CFI is really there for the launch and maybe tow (he can still talk to the tow pilot on the radio). This seems consistent with Costello and what our insurance requires. Having the CFI ensure a preflight is done, trim is set right for T/O, spoilers are locked for T/O, tow rope isn't tangled, etc. can be done on the ground right before tow.

Requiring a CFI for landing makes little sense to me (other than for comic relief).

Exactly.

It's a dumb requirement, and it shows a total lack of understanding of (or disregard for) the purpose of solo flight. Why does the private ticket require solo time? What can the student possibly practice solo that he can't practice with me in the back?

The purpose of solo flight is to impress upon the student the life-and-death nature of his decisions. It is a chance for him to make his own mistakes, and deal with them. It is an essential process not in the development of skill, which can be developed just as well (actually better) in dual instruction, but of judgment.

When you tell a student that he can't fly unless there is an instructor on the field, you are sending a clear and unmistakable message. You're telling the student that his decision to launch is subject to review and may be overruled by that instructor. You are therefore encouraging him to launch even if he's not sure it's a good idea - because he knows (correctly or otherwise) that if it's a bad idea, the instructor will overrule him. You can tell him otherwise until you're blue in the face, but actions speak louder than words.

To my knowledge, there is no regulation to support the requirement for an instructor to be present. I think this is just a requirement of the insurance underwriter - which if in writing is binding.

Here in New Zealand, being able to fly without an instructor on the field is a relatively advanced rating. Traditionally, quite a large number of things have been independently signed off in your logbook