Sparrowhawk vs. Apis

I just started wondering.

Both are 13 meter light gliders Sparrowhawk $29,950.00 with LD 36:1 at 50 kt stalling at 32 kt; Vne 123 kt, non-flapped Apis WR FAI $24,440.00 with LD 38:1 at 46kt stalling at 26 kt; Vne 121 kt, flapped, small winglets

Both seem to be very similar gliders. But. Apis seem's to be more 'complete' glider and is also flown more. Also Apis is built by experienced sailplane builders as can't be said for Sparrowhawk (albeit people at Windward are very experienced in aviation in general). Quality is said to be very high on Apis. Dunno about Sparrowhawk.

So, my question is (aside from 'why light glider = no regulations':

Why would someone eaven consider Sparrowhawk at that price ($5510 extra)? Eaven if one considers $1500 for shipping of Apis, it's still a whopping $4000 cheaper. And if you don't want to set world records, you save another $2000 by just buying Apis WR.

Just curious,

I don't get a chance to check in on ras much anymore, but noticed this thread.

To my knowledge, neither glider has been fully tested to provide polar data, making decisions based upon these figures alone speculative at best.

Quality is said to be very

To my knowledge, the Apis builders have zero experience in building all pre-preg carbon gliders. Apples and oranges. The Apis builders are well experienced at more conventional construction.

Neither glider exhibits the finish quality you might be used to in AS, SH, DG or LS products from what I have seen. From the limited exposure I've experienced, the quality of finish in the aero surfaces on the SparrowHawk is better. However, I am unclear as to the amount of finish on the comparative models which is due to user and due to factory, particularly on the kit versions of the Apis.

A more cogent question here, Kaido, is whether or not you should make a judgment based upon the estimated figures you have given? Personally, I find both of these designs very exciting. I have some experience with the SparrowHawk and would like to have some experience with the Apis.

However, two very different design philosophies have been pursued in the engineering. The Apis is optimized more toward attaining max L/D and climbing performance. The SparrowHawk is optimized more toward cruising capabilities and faster XC performance with minimal wetted area.

So while both of these light gliders will typically climb better than more conventional designs, and both of them will not run with an ASW-27 at 11 psf, they have very different strengths and weaknesses within their sphere. These differences are proportionately much larger than the differences between a V-2 and an ASW-27, etc.

BTW, both Robert Mudd who represents the Apis and Greg Cole who manufactures the SparrowHawk are quality people who will deal with you fairly.

The suggestion that gliders like these are not adequately capable of frequent and satisfying XC flight with or without wind is shear nonsense.

Best Regards, Gary Osoba

<snippage>

How does the Banjo compare with these gliders?

I know where its possible to get my hands on a Banjo (the Wasserkuppe) but not where to find a Sparrowhawk or an Apis.

Martin, You can find 5 Apis gliders in the U.S. but not in the U.K. If you ever visit the U.S. you are welcome to fly mine.

One other place is in Slovenia. If you are looking for a place to try some early spring soaring the airfield at Lesse-Bled would be a good place to start. The Apis FAI/Wr is there, as is the prototype Apis M self-launcher.

I'll be there in late April and early May. Come for a visit. I think you will enjoy yourself. The people are friendly and the scenery is awesome.

Martin,

I do think that there is a good chance that the U.K. will have an Apis dealer by the end of the year.

I'll keep my eyes and ears open!