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Posted 7 Months, 3 Weeks ago
Mathiasll
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Having just received the rules for the Euro’s I note with disgust the FAI has put another nail in the coffin of competition gliding in the supposed name of safety.

It seems the FAI has now adopted a starting system originally developed by the Aussies whereby at the start of the contest each contestant draws a number from a hat. This number determines which start group this contestant belongs to. Each day there are 4-5 nominated start points per class, every start group is allocated a different starting point and starting points are distributed up to 35km from the airfield. The intention is to reduce gaggling and prevent following. I am unaware of the official name for this starting method so, for the purposes of this discussion, I will henceforth refer to it as the Bollix Starting Method.

Now, the Bollix Starting Method sounds quite good as nobody wants to have a mid-air and nobody likes being followed. But this starting method introduces some serious problems:

Problem One: The Bollix Starting Method means that for the first, say, 10-20% of the task competitors are likely to be flying through different air. When the competition is at the level normally seem at these types of comps one decent thermal can make all the difference – especially at the start of the day when the conditions are weak. I accept that this is not a major problem but imagine a Formula 1 race where the contestants raced on different tracks for the first 10-20% of the race then merged onto one track. Now add to this the fact that these cars are scored on total distances so nobody knows how anyone is really doing until the end of the race. It would make the race pretty average to watch. Of course, we already have a disaster in this area with the Bollix Tasking Method (or AAT as it is otherwise known).

Problem Two: If two members of the same team are lucky enough to draw in the same start group they have a very significant advantage. Whilst other teams would have to try to stagger their starts so they end up roughly together, “lucky” teams would be able to start together. Nobody can deny the advantage team flying affords. This puts a large component of the overall result down to the draw at the start of the contest – let’s not forget the margins these contests are won and lost by. The obvious answer would be to have a rule whereby either all members of one team are started from the same point or allow only one member of each team to reside in any given start group – but that is not the way the rules currently work.

The Bollix Starting Method makes the competition less of a competition and more of a lottery and makes competition gliding even less “watchable” than it already is.

Competition gliding, like many other sports, is dangerous. Gaggling and tactical following are part of competition flying. Get used to it. If you don’t like – don’t fly comps.

Does this mean we should not take positive steps toward improving safety – UNQUESTIONABLY NOT. But, we should only allow the introduction of such measures where they do not compromise the nature of the competition or make the sport less watchable.

And before everybody starts blathering on about safety crap, I have had friends and family killed and injured in gliding. I do not enjoy this. But lets be serious about quantifying the risk profile and managing it without detracting from our struggling sport.

Safety first (but let’s think about it),
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Posted 7 Months, 3 Weeks ago
headhouse
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Don't hold back so much Ben. Tell us what you really think.

I agree with you. Members of the same class starting 30 km apart? They're not in the same race.

If it's too dangerous to have everyone use the same start gate then surely it's too dangerous for everyone to use the same 1st turnpoint? And the 2nd, and the 3rd and the finish.

Why not just have a computer draw up totally different (and gotta be non-intersecting!) tasks for each competitor, of about the same distance, on more or less the same day? If you have to ask...
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Posted 7 Months, 3 Weeks ago
Linay
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I agree so far. Cutting the balls off of racing is not the way to go. The 'politically correct' way is not usually the correct way, and certainly will be boring for racers and viewers alike. With so many so called 'extreme' sports competing for the leisure dollars of the public, why make our sport less attractive to the young and the brave? I only popped onto the sailplane racing scene a couple of years ago, and was thrilled at what I perceived to be RACING with other aircraft, and have a personal goal to take myself as far up in the racing ranks as my skills will permit. If the the Bollix starting method and other ill conceived FAI plans come to fruition, I must say my personal enthusiasm will be waning. Back in my Radio Control contest days my friend John Roe called RC Hand Launch contests a 'knife fight in a phone booth'. Good analogy for the GPS start cylinder, and I mean that in a good way. This is competition, racing, the best man shall win....and risk is an important integral part of the sport. Reducing the risk is OK, but NOT at the expense of the purity of the racing.

Mark Navarre
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Posted 7 Months, 3 Weeks ago
DSOseeker
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Dead men don't win gliding competitions, and very few, if any, people win dangling under a parachute. I suppose a few midairs would reduce the number of competitors and thereby reduce the risks to the others.

At 04:24 21 June 2002, Mark Navarre wrote:
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Posted 7 Months, 3 Weeks ago
alexsch
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Don,

How dare you post this on RAS where I might not see it and thus have a chance to respond...!

Better dead than dull...

To Mark Navarre, Woody and the others that have emailed me- it is great to see there are pilots all over the world that think fun and competition is still the the most important thing in gliding.

Cheers,

Ben.

At 10:54 21 June 2002, Don Johnstone wrote:
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Posted 7 Months, 3 Weeks ago
bhatia_vishnu
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Excellent idea. MAT and TAT.

Seriously, spend an hour or so in a gaggle of 65 gliders, all in the exact same thermal at the edge of the start cylinder, all at 4999', either flying 90 kts or with spoilers out, staring at the altimeter and GPS (or inputting the latest task change), and fixing on the hot tail numbers to catch the gaggle. The experience will quickly make you a convert.

John Cochrane
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Posted 7 Months, 3 Weeks ago
mintern
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Dear John,

Bruce is using a form of humour called 'sarcasm'. I realised (one night in a bar in Texas) that the good citizens of the US of A don’t understand this form of humour (never use this type of humour in a pickup line in the USA).

Bruce was denouncing the Bollix Starting Method.

Anyway, I have spent many hours in the situation you describe. I look out the window and thus avoid running into anyone else. I don’t like these situations but I want to compete in a contest – not a lottery. If contestants don’t have the same task then they are not racing the same race.

I was introduced to another saying whilst in the USA that seems very relevant here. “If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen”. But don’t lets spoil the competition…

Ben.

At 14:18 21 June 2002, John Cochrane wrote:
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Posted 7 Months, 3 Weeks ago
10stone5
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Sure sounds like fun. Obvious question: why *do* that?

I mean ... the start gate is open, right? So I'd either start, pretend to start (well you don't have to decide which until later), or just piss off elsewhere until you do want to start. Hell, even if you've got no intention to start for a while, isn't it useful to go and scout out some of the first leg and then come back and start?

I guess I'm missing something. After all I've only done half a dozen competition tasks so far, and landed out on 2/3 of them, so I don't know stuff you guys do. Or maybe it's just that I do this for *fun* and when in doubt or bored I'll go and do something radical and high risk (in terms of points, *not* safety) and interesting rather than play it safe and stick with everyone else.

Perhaps I'll never win a competition that way.
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Posted 7 Months, 3 Weeks ago
filrabat
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So here is the perfect starting method: have a number of tow planes equal to the number of gliders, let every body remain on tow until the last takeoff, then all tow planes with gliders always on tow line up in a row parallel to the starting line and flying in a direction perpendiclar to it and when crossing the starting line everybody release and this is the same starting time for everybody.
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Posted 7 Months, 3 Weeks ago
Sakura Kinomoto
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What about John Cochrane's post led you to believe he missed Bruce's point?? It looks like John understands that Bruce is opposed to the Australian multi-point start and is giving some sound reasons why start separation might be a good thing.

How nice if this were true of everyone.
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Posted 7 Months, 3 Weeks ago
Jiggybo
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While sarcasm is not unknown to me, I think I was aiming more for 'reductio ad absurdum'.

Come to think of it, one is pretty much an informal version of the other.
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