How to get BGA rules changed?

Does anyone know how to go about getting a blatently stupid BGA rule changed?

From the write up in S&G the BGA chairmans conference seemed more concerned with the presentation and cost of the Laws and Rules booklet than making sure the rules inside were sensible.

My particular problem is with the ban on radios for winch launching that has arrived in edition 13, with no consulatation with the clubs. Does the BGA really think that a flashing light against the low winter sun is more reliable than a private frequency VHF radio? Maybe we should let Heathrow know they've been doing it wrong all these years.

I've tried talking to the national coach, and he says the rule is there and won't be changed, no arguments. So where do I go from here? Sometimes I'd rather the CAA were in charge...

Who are you Adrian and where do you fly? What experience do you have and where?

I would have thought that this question would have been better raised in the first instance on u.r.a.s.

I think it unlikely that the BGA has any rules that are blatently stupid; mistaken perhaps, controversial sometimes, but not blatently stupid. I think this is as true of Operational Regulation 5.6 on page 9 (thirteenth edition of Laws and Rules) as of any other.

If you want to get a rule changed, it is a good idea to start by finding out why it exists; and then to argue why it should be changed. Going off the deep end will not get you far.

To get a rule changed, there are two approaches. First, to convince others that a change is needed; without that you can get nowhere. Second, to initiate the formal process for change. I am not sure of the exact method of imposing a change. However if you cannot get the Instructors and Safety committees on your side or at least not against you, you will not get far. Change needs persuasion not confrontation.

I do not know the reason for the change; but my guess is that because it is essential to be able to give a stop signal at any time, the BGA think that radio should not be relied on because it could fail at a critical time.

By the way, there are two National Coaches, which one did you ask? If you went at him the way you have gone at this bulletin board, I am not surprised you got a brush-off, it is what you deserve.

We have no problem with lights at the Long Mynd. If you cannot see the lights because of low sunlight; can you see the glider, should you be launching at all?

What are they doing at Dunstable? Because of the geography of the site two out of four launch-points are out of site from the winch, and they have used radio for years. Has this ever caused a problem?

You obviously know little about the CAA if you think they would be easier to change than the BGA. All BGA flying staff and committee members fly at clubs, and know the problems at those clubs, what consultation had you in mind?

Where you go from here is either do some homework, put forward arguments and get others to agree with you; or nowhere.

W.J. (Bill) Dean (U.K.).

Adrian

Here in Sweden we have the same rule. But..... we think it is a very wise rule.

And surely, you really don not want CAA to run gliding things?

As an outsider, I think BGA is doing a very good job.

Yes.. it was mentioned during an Operations meeting at CGC last weekend - a quick mutter about possibly needing to dust off the signal lights on our bus. We currently just use radio from launch point to the winch. However, I haven't read the wording and don't understand the implications, so won't comment further.

: someone at another site shouted stop into a radio, the launch stopped : and the glider crashed.

That's bad use of radio communication, not an intrinsic problem with radios per se. I've seen exciting things happen at a light-signalling club when a car with headlamps on drove up to and parked beside the launch point caravan, giving the winch driver - mid launch - a nice slow flash of full beam as it swung round...

For starters, try the BGA Secretary, Barry Rolfe.

Kimberly House Vaughan Way Leicester LE1 4SE

This type of problem would seem best solved by other means, like negotiating use of dissimilar frequencies or appropriate radios rather than outright banning of radio use. The solution may not be cheap.

In the US, use of CB, FRS, GMRS is subject to spurious transmissions. The short range of FRS and GMRS abrogates this to some extent. Even those moving by on our nearby Interstate highway would be out of range before they sort out what they'd heard. The appropriate solution is to move into the biz class radio spectrum with less frequency congestion and privacy codes. National frequency managers could be sure that gliding clubs did not share common frequencies over a given geographical area. If there really are very few gliding clubs using radios for winch operations, the solution is trivial.

Frank Whiteley

I don't know if there is any rule concerning use of the radio on winch launches in France, but certainly a rule prohibiting it would be blatently stupid on our field, since there is no direct visibility between the winch and the launch point. There are numerous other reasons to use radio : as we operate simultaneously winch launches and aerotow (in the same day, but not the same minute) both use the same frequency and the tow pilot ask the winch drivers before every start. And anyone outside the glider at start, if he sees something wrong, can and should say it on the radio, and there is always an instructor at the start point who is preciseley watching for that. In order to avoid mis-interpretation, any radio message destinated to the winch should begin with the word 'winch' (treuil in French). If there were a risk of confusion ons should add the name of the airfield ('treuil Beynes' in our case), but there is no other winch around.

There is a very simple answer to your question but it is another question. How do you guarantee that no one else will ever transmit on your 'private frequency'? There is no such thing as a private frequency. Anyone happening upon the frequency can then transmit on it providing they have a transmitter. What if this actually happened and blocked out a 'STOP signal'?? Even voice signals by landline can be open to misinterpretation due to distortion, background noise from other sources, etc. Just because it hasn't happened yet does not mean that it will never happen. Light and bat signals are not open to interruption in this manner - if the winch driver cannot se the signals then he/she should not be

Only a few clubs use private frequencies, but many clubs use other sorts of radio frequencies. We use the BGA ground frequency (which is public) for general communications, and lights for all launch signals. The frequency has plenty of traffic, including our next-but-one neighbour club occasionally, so the lights are a Very Good Idea.