Garmin as a flight recorder

Does anyone have practical experience of the Garmin 76S as a soaring flight recorder?

Advantages over the cheaper models (e.g. eTrex Summit) include 1) Buttons on the front 2) can run from glider battery without voltage converter.

My current configuration is a Garmin 12XL in the cockpit connected to my C3 flight computer and EW logger in the back (which has finally died). I'll use the 76S instead of the 12XL, toss out the EW, and for competitions use the 12XL as an emergency 'no altitude' backup logger in the back where the EW was. The 76S can 'velcro' onto the same mount with the same power/data plus I was using for the 12XL, and drive the C3 just the same.

I'm not concerned about 'FAI certification'. Competitions at my level all accept IGC files extracted from GPS's anyway.

Questions:

1) In practice, do I even need to be bothered with logging pressure altitude, or is the logged GPS altitude good enough for thermal analysis and confirming starts to within a couple of hundred feet?

2) Are the side buttons on the eTrex series usable in flight or too awkward?

Thanks, Ian Forster-Lewis,

I fly with a Garmin II Plus, hooked into a Palm Vx with SoaringPilot running. Makes perfect IGC records, GPS altitude is OK, and the only con is that it's not certified: no G-record. With the GPS alone, it logs well, but I don't know about altitude loggin. If it does, then the GPS alt is good enough for thermal analysis. I do that with See You, and there's no diference between my IGC files and those produced by an IGC-approved logger.

Good flights, Jose Manuel Alvarez.

This excellent Garmin 76s vs Vista comparison cross-posted from the Yahoo vista group (I haven't asked xcnick but I'm sure he won't mind). I've ordered a Garmin 76S from amazon.com at $399 as it really seems to be the best of the Garmin's for soaring right now - built in logging including altitude with memory for 5000 logpoints (e.g. >6 hours at fixed 5 seconds interval), supports external power at 12 volts using the 'standard' Garmin plug, actually has a barometric sensor for pressure altitude (although this may be obsolete in the light of accurate GPS altitude logging). Thanks to xcnick. Ian, B21.

GPSmap 76S vs. eTrex Vista for the Soaring Pilot.

I am a pilot of Hang Gliders and Sailplanes. The GPSmap 76S is listed as a marine unit, and the eTrex Vista is listed as an outdoor unit. Neither is intended for aviation, however many of us find a portable GPS with barometer and 3D trace very handy.

The similarity of these two units encourages the comparison. The hardware is the difference. The expected use will determine whether the Vista or 76S is right for you. The Vista is not only small, but easy to use with only the left hand. The 76S is large and easy to use with any finger, if mounted. So if the portable GPS to stay in a pocket until needed, the Vista is ideal. If one intends to mount it, the 76S is better.

ANTENNA: The 76S will lock on the satellites first. The Vista antenna works best with the unit flat and the 76S' works best upright. The 76S has a place to plug in an external antenna whereas the Vista does not.

SCREEN: The screen is larger on the 76S. This alone may not be that impressive, but with the larger screen one can display more fields in larger fonts. The 76S is harder to see in some light. At first glance it is greener than the Vista. The Vista is more readable with sunglasses on or in dim lighting. I often leave the back light on with the 76S. One really needs to compare the screens for themselves. I am happy with the Vista screen, but my girl friend who wears glasses won't use it because of the screen size.

BATTERY LIFE: My own experience is with the compass 'off' and in 'normal' not 'battery saver' mode running Radio Shack 1500 mah NiMH batteries. The 76S lasted for an 8 hour flight and I had enough battery left to download the tracks. The eTrex Vista is about the same. If you stay up longer than this, you may want to try alkaline batteries.

INTERFACE: The Vista has a unique button system; great for one hand operation. However, to the uninitiated, it can be frustrating. Entries are not confirmed with an audio beep as in the 76S. When soaring, one wants to keep the eyes outside, but the Vista encourages one to look at the screen for confirmations and menu choices. The 76S has beeps with each button pushed. The Vista can use the menu to go directly to the desired page. To the see the various pages in the 76S one must go through each page one at a time.

WAYPOINTS: Both hold 500 waypoints. The Vista has no provisions for comments whereas the 76S has a comment field with 16 characters. Peter Kelly and others who share turnpoints on the web put some information in these fields like airport data.

ROUTES: The 76S has 50 routes available and the Vista has 20. Both have a page that lists a route's waypoints. However, only the 76S can scroll left, exposing: the distance to each, course, eta, fuel, leg distance, leg fuel, leg time, sunrise and sunset at waypoint, and time to. The 76S has a compass page like the Vista and in addition a Highway Page the Vista does not have. The name: 'Highway', lead me to believe this page would be useless for soaring. But even if the pictorial is not that helpful; the page offers a place for even more data fields big enough to read at a glance.

BAROMETER: It is the sensor that makes both these units so appealing to the soaring pilot. Yeazel and Mehaffey do a great job of explaining this sensor and how they differ in each unit. (http://www.gpsinformation.net/waas/g76s/g76s-map.html) In short, the 76S will have a field named: 'Barometer', which is the normalized pressure one gets from the airport. The Vista will show ambient pressure in this field called: Barometer. This gives an edge to the 76S for aircraft work.

TRACKS: The 76S will hold 5,000 points vs. the Vista's 3,000 giving a tighter trace or longer coverage. The 76S can save more tracks but saving a track in either will produce a truncated track of just a few hundred points, so one wants to download the track, rather than save it with either unit.

MAPS: The map page of the 76S can show the course, bearing and heading as line protruding from the triangle and the Vista does not provide all these. The 76S can display both Metroguide or Topo at one time or just one set of maps from a single menu. The Vista maps are chosen one by one.

DATA FIELDS: The 76S has more data fields available for each of the pages. This gives a flexibility to mix information on one page. For example on the 76S one can have the data field: 'average accent' on the map page. As I go on glide I want to ovoid anything less than this average. The Vista will offer this data field only on the Altitude page.

TRIP COMPUTER: The trip computer on the Vista can be customized, the 76S cannot. This Page is not very important for soaring, but it can be used to place data one could not fit on the other pages.

IMPRESSIONS: I chose the 76S for the following reasons: The antenna orientation, and interface buttons make it more suitable for my use: temporarily mounted PED in the sailplane with a RAM mount. The larger screen size and highway page means I can display more data fields. Comments for waypoints allow me to add airport information.

Rumor has it they may make some software for us. It would be so easy. The most obvious improvement would be aviation maps we could download; hook the beeper up to the vario so one could have an audio indication of lift and sink; a field for density altitude and a field for glide angle to waypoint. Ah... if only I were king.

RECOMMENDATIONS: The Vista is the best unit to drop in your pocket and take everywhere. It is the ideal key phob. The 76S has a few features that make it more specific in it's application as a dash 'mounted' marine unit. One must look long and hard to see if these are features one is willing to pay for. At the time of this writing the price difference is considerable at $100.

As an altenative to the glide angle to waypoint, height of arrival for a selected glide angle would be nice.

Hi Ian,

I wonder if you could share your first impressions, especially for gliding use??

Cheers,

Jim Kelly.

I have been successfully using WinPilot Adv with my Garmin 89 for the past 8 months. No problems. Nice package.

For the moment, flights logged in the pocket pc are not accepted in US contests. If the garmin has a log, that's ok, so make sure you can record the log in the garmin if you want to fly contests

John Cochrane

oops,

I need to refrain from buying an IPAQ until . . . .