Ebay experience buying a sailplane

Hi,

There was a sailplane posted on ebay.

Several of us bid on it. I was the winning bidder. I thought that some of you might be interested in the results...

(1) After being notified by ebay that I was the winning bidder, I sent email to the seller asking them to contact me via phone to set up payment and so that I could drive down and pick it up

(2) A day later, I get a call. The caller identified themself as the seller. They said that they had sold the glider to someone else (for more money). They said that it wasn't their fault and that they had told ebay two days before that the plane was sold. I expressed my disappoint me and ended the call as getting mad wouldn't have done much.

(3) I contacted ebay to complain about the fact that they had not ended the auction. They claim that they were never contacted by the seller. I then complained about the 'honesty' of the seller and asked what they might do. They responded and said that they would do NOTHING (not even stop the seller from using ebay) because I didn't have email from the person telling what they told me on the phone. Ebay wouldn't even contact the person to see if they would admit to selling it out from under me.

This is not a good situation. What I learned is that ebay is not to be trusted and that the person selling the sailplane really isn't a good person to do business with.

So, anybody got a glider to sell in the under $10,000 range.

Consider your self lucky. I'm in the automobile appraisal business. I was recently contacted by a guy who purchased a Mercedes Benz SL600 on EBAY.The car was delivered and was not even close to being as represented. The 600 is a 12 cylinder car. The engine had been replaced with an 8 cyl. and the body looked as though it had been painted with a brush. There were huge holes in the rear area where the previous owner had installed and then uninstalled his ghetto blaster stereo system etc. The poor guy paid $30,000. for what was really a worthless automobile.Ebay told him there was nothing they could do.I hear more & more nightmare stories about them. Caveat Emptor

At the 'winning' price, I would bet the Libelle was not in any condition that would make it worthwhile. For only a little more than $10,000 you can get early glass from a number of places in Europe. Add $2000 shipping to East Coast Port.

Aside from a 1-26 (a category all its own), most experienced glider buyers don't really want anything under $10,000. $20,000 and up with partners is more reasonable.

Considering the winning bid, the Libelle condition would have been questionable. Doubtful that it was the deal of the century. Very doubtful. In Europe, there are airworthy early glass sailplanes selling for not much over $10,000. Shipping to East Coast Port is about $2,000.

<Normal ebay experience snipped>

Your lesson number one is that electronic business is nothing short of a crock of feces.

Lesson number two is that no glider will ever show up on ebay that's worth looking at, if it were, someone else would have it.

Lesson number three, if it's on ebay, the seller is trying to peddle something that nobody else wants.

The metalworking group has many ebay stories, and there aren't many more honorable people in metalworking on the internet than there are soaring people. If you're looking for a good deal, don't use the net. Nothing beats personal inspection, and that's what ebay is intended to avoid.

My 2c worth - The culprit here is greed.

Any marketplace has it's pros and cons. On an online auction site it is sometimes too easy to bid without doing the neccessary research. If you buy a pig in a poke, whose fault is it. The seller for being dishonest, or you for failing to look in the bag?

If the goods are really easy to define (as most electronics are) by specifying a brand and model number. Then inspection gets less important, a complex machine needs a little specialist inspection with the Mk 1 eyeball. Nothing has changed about that, just that now, in addition to buying on newspaper classifieds, or bidding at a physical auction on a telephone, or in person, you can buy online. The responsibility for verification is still yours.

The reward of careful homework and bidding is getting what you want at a bargain/best price. The greedy and lazy will get fleeced...

You can find a nice glider for around $10K. At least you could a year or so ago when the dollar was high against the Euro. I bought a very nice Libelle out of Germany for less than $10,000 U.S. Had it shipped over for less than $2000. My definition of nice is: refinished, no damage, ready to fly with a sound trailer. Maybe I'm not an 'experienced' glider buyer, but this is my 3rd glider and 4th aircraft overall. Having said all that, I now wish I had taken advantage of the favorabable dollar: euro ratio and had bought more glider.

Ka-6's and Ka-8's can be had out of europe for about what it costs to ship them over. However, since the original glider in question was a Libelle, I'll stay with cheap glass for the rest of the discussion.

201 Libelles ( I prefer the 'real' H301 Libelle), ASW-15's and particularly the Standard Cirrus are plentiful and cheap in Europe. You will find that each of those can present a challenge to inexperienced pilots, but they are not too bad. That's a topic that's been discussed here before.

You can have a look at a lot of gliders for sale at: http://www.segelflug.de/cgi-bin/classifieds/ classifieds.cgi Look in the 'Clubklasse' for gliders in the $10K range.

Last year I've bought myself a very nice old ship, a Zugvogel IIIb, for just over $3000. Nothing wrong with that. Why would I want to spend over $10000 if I have just as much fun with $3000?

Independent of the price, it is a waste of hangar space in the club, etc to own a glider on your own The average hours/year for private gliders is about 50h So a syndicate of two is usual A syndicate of several glider/ULM pilots creating a pool should create a larger average opportunity for each member (is this a club ?)

JW

WHAT!!!

not own your glider... are you insane....its my god given right to own my own glider and fly lots of hours in it.

Besides you dont know whats happened to your club ship previously... it could have some damage from the previous user who was too embaressed to report it!!

Al