Class B accomodations for Soaring

The Minneapolis St. Paul (MSP) airport is planning to expand it's Class B airspace to 30 mile from 20 miles, putting a 6000 foot MSL (approx 5000 foot AGL) limit on Soaring from the most active Soaring site in Minnesota (Stanton Airport), located at approximately 23 miles from MSP.

The 6000 foot floor of the controlled airspace over Stanton is needed to allow ILS approaches to a new runway. The ILS will only be used when they can't do visual approaches to the new runway (ie: Weather not favorable for Soaring).

We want to get the FAA to agree to activate the airspace over Stanton as Class B only when the ILS is active, and note it as such on the sectionals. This will allow us to use the airspace when conditions are favorable for soaring, and allow them to use it when conditions are unfavorable for soaring.

What I would like to know is ... IS THERE ANY SIMILAR PRECEDENT OUT THERE FOR A CLASS-B AIRSPACE 'EXCEPTION?' IF SO IT WOULD MAKE THE LOCAL FAA MUCH MORE RECEPTIVE TO OUR SUGGESTION.

Thank you all very much,

Tom Rent Minnesota Soaring Club

I'm not sure I agree with your chain of thought there. You don't need anything more then Class E 'to allow' an ILS. Class B airspace is used for heavy traffic. And ILS approaches are used all the time in CAVU weather. And even aircraft on a visual will want separation services from Minneapolis approach while they are inbound, descending in this new airspace.

That sounds unlikely. Consider what would happen if (assuming your ILS-only reasoning holds) the weather at MSP goes below VFR minimums suddenly (ground fog, for example). What is Minneapolis Approach going to do with all the aircraft in the suddenly activated class B that aren't even talking to them?

But you're already under the mode C veil, so you should be equipped to get a clearance into the Class B anyway. And if there's no traffic conflict, you will probably get cleared in just fine. Which, if you are correct, will be the case when you want to go soaring.

Also, you only need a glide ratio of about 9:1 to get from outside the class B (7nm south) from 5000 AGL. You could dead stick a Cessna in from outside the new airspace.

The only similar thing I can think of is what happens when towers close, and the airspace around them collapses back to G or E. But that's defined by a schedule rather than the whims of weather. And while there are lots of Class D and a few Class C (eg KISP) none of the class B airports close at night.

There are lots of class Bs with cutouts to allow for other air traffic. You might be able to get a notch for your airport. On the other hand, Stanton is a short, unpaved runway that will not normally be operating flights that need to be at 10,000MSL over the airport...

The SSA theoretically supports the US soaring community on airspace issues. What is the SSA's response?

Inquiring minds want to know!

get AOPA and SSA involved now..!!!

my bets are on AOPA.

Any new Class B 'growth' takes airspace away from all the flying public.. not just gliders..

I'm sure the local pilots assoc and AOPA are already involved..

are you an AOPA member??

If not.. why not..

TZ

Tom.. what is the ceiling of the ClassB.. ?

TZ

Ray Warshaw

Their support on airspace issues is far past the 'theoretical' stage. Maybe it's just careless wording, but it'd be a lot more accurate statement if you left that word out.

Mike Yankee The SSA has used an incredible amount of resourses and manpower to insure our access to airspace. This has been well documented in SOARING. Your message conveyed a negative connotation to me. If you think they should be doing more on the airspace issues please volunteer you time or money or both to further their efforts on our behalf

Charlie 'Lite' Minner

My post (verbatim) simply asked, 'The SSA theoretically supports the US soaring community on airspace issues. What is the SSA's response?'.

I don't think that warrants your flaming me.

You happy people! Where I am flying airspace above us is not class B but class A and it begins not at 5000 ft AGL but at 2200 ft AGL (2500 MSL). We have to go 11 km from the field for this floor to raise to only 3500 ft and more than 30 km to get out of this class A airspace. Well, there are some small zones we can ask to activate by calling the ATC at Orly, Villacoublay and Roissy by phone at least 1/2 hour before using them, where 2500 ft becomes 3500 ft and 3500 ft becomes FL055. This is in some way the opposite solution to what you suggest, i.e. instead of activating restricted airspace only when needed, they deactive it when not needed and we ask for.

and I do not believe that gliders are authorized in ClassB