Alternatives for glider insurance?

U.S. Glider Pilots-

Who are you using to insure your glider?

What kinds of annual rates for used sailplanes ($15,000 - $20,000 value) for what types of coverages? (i.e. hull damage, storage, road transport, liability, etc.)

Also, for ships in the $50,000 value category?

Lastly, is there anyone out there offering commercial glider coverage other than Costello?

Thanking you in advance for your experiences,

A 1-36 was recently damaged in an outlanding back east. The repair estimate was $27,000, far in excess of the hull or insured value.

1. Don't under-insure your hull. 2. Schweizer parts are _really_ expensive. 3. Avoid being penny-wise and pound foolish. There seems to be a bit of this in soaring. 4. Self insurance may work among a group of 10 or so. It was suggested and maybe even tried in the '70's. I don't think I'd go down that route alone. 5. I've had two claims since 1977 (when I started). One partner wrote off a glider (1978, 4000UKP, my share 1000UKP, UKP was ~$2US at the time). The second was all mine (1994, ~$5,500, 185UKP(at $1.65) for materials, the remainder was labor, deductible was insured). Yes, they are less than my total premiums since 1977, but coverage was nice to have when needed. 6. Generally, insurance premiums result from no-claims discounts, experience, and a fixed percentage of hull value, perhaps with a performance factor. IIRC, our club ships all share the same hull value percentage for coverage (but I would have to verify this). A portion is liability, but beyond this it's been about 4.1% of insured value IIRC. The club does impose experience limitations on solo flight, so there are stepping stones to increased complexity and performance. It could be that the average repair costs of a 1-34 are indeed higher than a higher valued glass ship. Yes, your premiums are higher than mine for your lower market (and insured) value ship.

Happy hunting,

Frank

Actually, I intentionally slightly under-insure my hull. Why? The last thing I want is to end up with a repaired glider that should have been totaled. I dislike gliders that fly sideways...

I'll bite.

had >51 hours. First Glider. Thinking of liability only next year but I will get the break for one year with no wreck if I can last one more month.

It seems that the budget glider gets hit the hardest. If the glider cost 3 times the amount, the insurance is only twice. I am finding this in Power as

Pik West blew costello out the water when it came to price for similar coverage.

They are only able to service west coast aircraft however.

Al

This tends to be largely a US stigma, and there are clear examples why. In terms of glider damage there are craftsmen and there are repairmen and it pays to know the difference. I haven't shopped the US used market actively in 20 years, but when I last did I discovered gliders with obvious repairs, but NDH in the ads and nothing in the logbook. Stigmas are funny things. At least in European markets, you know who made a proper repair, since there is much less prejudice against properly repaired damage, especially when the glider comes out within a few ounces of its original weight. That doesn't mean there aren't problems there, but I think less frequently.

By underinsuring, you are simply raising your premiums artifically since you will be more out of pocket for replacement. If you do enough damage to make proper repair alignment unlikely, you're probably looking at a write-off in any event. You should insure against replacement cost at the minimum. Given xnick's example, it makes no sense to me to insure a 1-34 for $12,000 (under insured) when replacement cost is likely to run $15,000 (market value) and significant damage (without pilot injury) can exceed $20,000. He's grousing about the $800 premium. Paying $650 for the lesser coverage would help? Is no hull insurance (even for the A&P) sensible? xnick should get the Schweizer price list first. Under-insuring seems to only benefit the salvage/rebuild project market. There's usually one or two of those along the wall of every glider shop I've ever in.

I guess the question begs itself, why would you have to accept a repaired glider that did, in fact, fly sideways. If you refused to accept it, with justification, maybe the underwriters would quit allowing work to those that can't make acceptable repairs. Has anyone ever done this in the US? Costello represents you, the pilot, in a claims situation. If you insure directly with an underwriter's agent, they represent the company. An important distinction when shopping insurance and premiums. It's just something else to consider.

Frank

Try LL Johns. Less costly, and we can fly the ship during the winter months with no added premium. Happy so far! Jim N483SZ

I'm new to the aviation insurance game since I bought my first sailplane this year. I did my homework and priced several policies. Since I live in MI, with winter storage, I found the on/off procedure along with price key. I opted for a policy by LL Johns (Waterford, MI) for year around coverage thru AIG at a price slightly less than Costello, but without the storage hassle, plus it was a local agent for me. I insured my Kestrel 19 for $820/yr for $1,000,000 liability & personal Injury, $3,000 medical for $100 deductible (not in motion) and $500 (in motion) on a $20,000 policy ($15,000 hull, $5,000 trailer).

Now, I’m a relatively low time pilot, private ASEL with <200 hrs, and a freshly minted Glider rating (August, 2001) with only 90 flights total, and no >35:1 time until I flew the kestrel. I had to get my glider rating to get insurance, but I feel I got good coverage for reasonable coverage.

Hope this information helps.

Steve

Thank you for all the replies. The other question was who else does commercial glider insurance? Only Costello (via AIG)?

Take it for what it is worth, Mr. Pat Costello and his staff, particularly Susan Fassett, have provided me with excellent service at a competitive premium for years. The ability to call and quickly insure a new glider or towplane added to my fleet at Miami Gliders, as well as receive answers to my questions, has been worth it to me. When I was shopping for insurance a few years ago, I couldn't get quick answers from companies that primarily insure airplanes.

Costello & Associates (a SSA Business Member) works for us to find a variety of glider insurance products from a dwindling supply of aviation insurance underwriters.

Pat Costello is always accessible to chat with at the SSA Conventions, he attends the SSA Board meetings to report on the state of glider insurance availability, and advises and assists the Soaring Safety Foundation.

An unsolicted comment from Burt at Miami Gliders. www.FLYGLIDERS.com

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