Advice for first glider purchase?

I'm am shopping for my first (used) glider. I have narrowed the choices down to the Discus CS, DG-303, and the ASW-24B. I have only flown the Discus and am looking for someone with time in the 303 or 24B so I can get their opinion on flying quality etc..

I owned a DG-303, found it quiet with a comfortable (and large) cockpit (I'm 6 feet and around 200 lbs.). DGs have outstanding visibility, I could easily see the tips of the stabilizer. The parallelogram stick takes a bit to get used to, pitch has a slightly rubbery feel and the force needed is a bit higher than the other axes, plus the trim is not terribly effective (it does have a trim lockout which gets rid of the rubbery feel). Otherwise, the handling is quite responsive and easy to deal with. Spoilers are very effective, and landing in short fields is a snap.

Performance is close enough to the Discus and ASW-24 that pilot skill usually makes more of a difference. At 9 lbs/sq ft wingloading, I could normally slightly outclimb either one, but would also lose a bit at 100+ knots.

Any of these gliders has the advantage that you can get a 3-4 year old 'like new' example for lots less than a new German glider without any loss of performance. Regarding the ASW-24:

Good: Terrific ventilation with the swiveling eyeball vent. Quiet (especially since you don't have to open the vent in the canopy for ventilation). Light wings (130 pounds). Factory B model has excellent visibility to the side due to a lower cut canopy. Safety cockpit. 5' wheel with disc brake. Easy to fly. Very comfortable. Wide cockpit. Easy to trim. Lots of room for instruments. Everything is really well designed.

Bad: The '24 has a rather short cockpit, so if you are tall you may need to fly without the seatback. The spoilers are not as effective as on some other gliders (e.g. LS). Waterbags rather than integral tanks.

Marc.. I knew you had your 303 for sale... it sold?? what are you flying now?

I flew the DG 303 on a short flight.. compared to an LS-4.. the controls are 'Stiffer' .. maybe it's just that 'new car feel' compared to a 20yr old LS4. Got used to the Parallelogram stick easy enough, lots of glass.. nice flying bird..

TZ

My club has a Discus CS, two ASW-24 and had until the end of the last season a DG-300 that was sold in order to buy another Discus. I had flights on these 3 ships. I don't have expereience on DG-303, but I guess it is similar to DG-300. If I had to make a choice between thses 3 ships, my choic would be the Discus without any doubt. I think this opinion is widely shared in my club since we replaced the DG-300 by a Discus. The 3 ships are nice ships. At my level of experience I am unable to feel a difference in performance. My preferenece for the Discus is in its handling, I find it more responsive than the others, I better feel the thermals, center them more easily, find easier to stay in them despite turbulence. Anyway each of the 3 ships have some minor drawback. The locking mechanism of the gear in the Discus is not very good on old ships, I had once a landing gear down followed by a bounce on a rabbit hole during which the gear self retracted in the air and I landed a second time on the belly. The ASW-24 has very small ailerons which are nevertheless sufficient to control the glider at any flying speed but have very poor authority at the beginning of the ground roll. If you add some cross wind (normal case on my airfield) and a belly hook only, take-off may be challenging and wing drops usual, although I always succedded until now to pick the dropping wing up afer some time. An instructor here who is managing some mountain flight camps refuses to take an ASW-24 for this because this, since a loss of aileron efficiency near a ridge may be fatal. Our DG-300 had a lot of friction in the ailerons' linkage, I don't know if this is general but I guess this is partly due to the complexity of this system which is different of what is usually found for automatic hookup and has more pieces and articulations. I like the long canopy allowing the sun on my feet during cold flights, but in order to reach the pedals your legs need to go around the bottom part of the control panel which I find a little to wide for my short legs.

: a loss of aileron efficiency near a ridge may be fatal.

Indeed there was an instructor at Buno-Bonnevaux who was young and very experimented who killed himself in the Alps in an ASW-24 probably for this reason (in any case near a ridge). From all i have heard at Buno the Discus is the best standard glider at present.

Do you take off with the spoilers open? That solved the problem for me.

Buy a Discus...

True.. and it did stay where put.. stiff control kept the PIO down.. LOL

Probably a majority of people agree with your opinion which is the same as mine, since Discus on the used ships market are usually more expensive than the 2 other gliders discussed here.

I didn't do that on my first flights on the ship but now I do it as it is recommended by the flight manual. Things are better this way, but in some circumstances (strong cross wind, bad wing runner ...) take-of remains challenging, at least not so easy as with the 2 other gliders discussed.